[14:36] 25 minutes? [14:37] 24 [14:37] 29 here [14:37] 24 [14:37] kingtaco|laptop: *cough* ntp *cough* [14:37] kingtaco|laptop: fix our hwclock :-P [14:38] can someone +v me since I'll be speaking for chris today? [14:38] heh, guess I'm going to be 5 minutes late :) [14:38] --- kingtaco|laptop sets modes [#gentoo-council +v agaffney] [14:38] --- Kugelfang sets modes [#gentoo-council +o agaffney] [14:38] Kugelfang: that works too :P [14:38] he's replacement for today, so he should be opped [14:38] hah [14:38] fine [14:39] what is on the agenda? [14:39] --- Flameeyes sets modes [#gentoo-council +v wolf31o2] [14:39] just reply-to and SPF? [14:39] --- Flameeyes sets modes [#gentoo-council -o wolf31o2] [14:39] then we need to downgrade wolf :P [14:39] hah [14:39] owned [14:39] agaffney, and QA [14:39] update on qa plans [14:39] * Kugelfang hrms [14:39] spb: are you available? [14:39] there will b e a bugs update too [14:39] anybody heard from curtis in the last months btw? [14:39] nope [14:40] Flameeyes: not that I'm aware of [14:40] * Flameeyes sighs [14:40] Flameeyes: nope, a few people are trying to track him down though [14:40] he seems to have completely disappeared 6+ weeks ago [14:40] his IRC session was idle for 3+ weeks before it got disconnected [14:40] and he's not been back [14:40] not responding to email [14:40] he's probably in a ditch somewhere :/ [14:40] kloeri, what about giving RFID tags to developers? [14:40] heh [14:40] amne and christel are both doing what they can to find out what's up [14:40] agaffney, someone in devrel has his phone number [14:40] like they do with dogs? :P [14:41] kingtaco|laptop: have they tried to call him? [14:41] Flameeyes, 1984 [14:41] agaffney, probably... they are concerned where he went [14:41] Flameeyes: good idea.. and a few satelites sensitive enough to read the tags :p [14:41] kingtaco|laptop, that's older than me [14:41] agaffney: don't think anybody have his number [14:41] Flameeyes, really??? [14:41] kloeri, yes, use foundation's money for that ;) [14:41] Flameeyes, god, I feel old then [14:42] kingtaco|laptop: afaik, yes [14:42] kingtaco|laptop, yeah, I'll be 21 at the end of the month :P [14:42] * kingtaco|laptop checks into an old folks home [14:43] * agaffney was born in '84 [14:43] * Kugelfang is getting 24 start of next month.. [14:43] hahah [14:43] * agaffney is 22 for anyone too lazy to do the math :P [14:44] so I suppose that asking for news about the redesign this month is basically pointless [14:44] Flameeyes, absolutly pointless [14:44] I don't have any idea about it and I doubt robbat2|na does [14:45] * kloeri will be 32 at the end of the month [14:45] OOOLD! [14:45] kloeri, I'll put your name on the list for the old folks home [14:45] heh [14:45] kingtaco|laptop: thanks, I can hardly manage writing my name anymore due to old age :) [14:46] kloeri, I'm suprised you're not in adult dipers yet [14:46] I mean 32 [14:46] jeez [14:46] :p [14:46] can't figure out how they work.. I'm not really that technically minded :p [14:46] tricky stuff, those adult diapers [14:47] I'm pretty sure they work the same as other diapers... [14:47] I mean, how many possible ways are there.... [14:47] hahah, gentoo has surely gone down the toilet today [14:47] today? :P [14:48] hehe [14:48] i just read that book, was pretty good [14:48] that and Fahrenheit 451 [14:48] which, 1984? [14:48] SpanKY, "Gone down the toilet"? [14:48] ah [14:48] both are very good books [14:48] SpanKY, yeah fahrenheit 451 is a great book [14:48] SpanKY, you should try to find a copy of "brave new world" [14:49] that's another fun classic [14:49] Fahrenheit 451 is cool [14:49] heh [14:49] wolf31o2, what are you doing here? :P weren't you away? :P [14:50] --- robbat2|na is now known as robbat2 [14:50] Flameeyes: no... I'm *leaving* in like 5-10 minutes for my CISSP classes... [14:50] wolf31o2, I'm afraid to ask what CISSP is [14:50] which is why I appointed a proxy... since I know I won't be here for the whole meeting [14:50] i just pick random books from here to read: http://books.google.com/googlebooks/banned/ [14:50] Certified Information Systems Security Professional [14:50] hahah [14:51] SpanKY: both are good books. the movie for F451 was *horrible* :P [14:51] morning [14:51] --> vorlon078 (n=vorlon@gentoo/developer/vorlon) has joined #gentoo-council [14:51] agaffney, like almost every movie coming from a book [14:51] Flameeyes: well, it was even worse because it was the 70s and british :P [14:52] it was so bad it was comical [14:52] agaffney, the only thing I liked, taken from a book, was the Dune mini-series [14:52] heh, I've read most of those books [14:52] not the '80s film with sting of course [14:52] Flameeyes: the 2000 Dune mini-series kicked serious ass [14:52] the original Dune movie sucked goat nuts [14:52] agaffney, yeah [14:53] and oddly, I've got the first Dune book on my desk right now :P [14:53] I still have to watch the children of dune mini-series [14:53] reading through the series for the 4th or 5th time [14:53] agaffney: i got them all in german and in english [14:53] Flameeyes: I caught part of it, but it wasn't very good [14:53] agaffney: and the english one, i got as hardcover and pocketbooks [14:53] I have the original dune books in the shelf at my left [14:53] SciFi spent their entire year's movie budget on the Dune miniseries [14:53] wow that's a lot [14:53] and it was well worth it [14:53] well spent [14:53] *damn* good [14:53] for children of dune, they did it like any other mini-series [14:54] -7 [14:54] * agaffney will probably stop reading after book 4 or 5 this time [14:54] I should try to look for herber's son's books... but I doubt they'll be at the same level of the father's [14:54] it's just sad that herbert didn't finish the last part [14:55] Flameeyes: they aren't [14:55] God Emperor is really the last good book [14:55] didn't his son write a book on the Butlerian Jihad? [14:55] Flameeyes: i got them all, and i only read them once [14:55] agaffney: 6 books [14:55] o_O [14:55] agaffney: 6 prequels to Dune [14:55] Kugelfang, well, lately I haven't been able to re-read any book :| got a lot of new ones to read [14:55] I need to get some new ones [14:55] agaffney: 3 short before dune, 3 in the time of Butler's Jihad [14:56] I keep re-reading Dune, Wheel of Time, and Harry Potter series :P [14:56] i should read a clockwork orange [14:56] i lubz the book [14:56] agaffney: why would you re-read wheel of time ... once was painful enough [14:56] agaffney, you fell with the third title :P [14:56] * Flameeyes still has to finish the eye of the world [14:56] of mice and men [14:56] SpanKY: because eventually they'll get to the last battle :P [14:56] I can't believe that's banned [14:56] I red that in 4th grade or something [14:56] *read [14:57] apparently it was instead of learning how to spell ;) [14:57] kingtaco|laptop, for non-usians what's 4th grade? :P [14:57] Flameeyes, I was 8 [14:57] Flameeyes: 9-10 years old [14:57] kingtaco|laptop, okay :) [14:57] * agaffney runs to refill his water bottle [14:57] banned for "vulgarity" [14:58] I think it has the word "damn" in it [14:58] ZOMG!!1111 [14:59] --> marienz (i=marienz@gentoo/developer/marienz) has joined #gentoo-council [14:59] --> nightmorph|amd64 (n=nightmor@gentoo/developer/nightmorph) has joined #gentoo-council [14:59] --> AllanonJL|W (n=allanonl@gentoo/developer/allanonjl) has joined #gentoo-council [15:01] --> bonsaikitten (n=pal@gentoo/user/bonsaikitten) has joined #gentoo-council [15:01] ok, we starting this shindig? [15:01] --- kingtaco|laptop sets modes [#gentoo-council +m] [15:02] sure [15:02] ready to rumble [15:02] ok, whos the logger this month? [15:02] me? [15:02] i propose kloeri [15:02] ok [15:02] done [15:02] ok [15:02] who's here [15:02] * Kugelfang [15:02] * robbat2 robbat2 [15:02] * agaffney raises his hand with his wolf31o2 mask on [15:02] * kingtaco|laptop kingtaco [15:03] * Flameeyes is here and is logging as usual [15:03] vapier: stop hiding [15:03] * kingtaco|laptop pokes spanky with a stick [15:03] reading books [15:03] heh [15:03] he was just here :P [15:03] * agaffney throw his copy of Dune at SpanKY [15:03] ok [15:03] topics for today [15:03] so, let's discuss Reply-To and SPF first please [15:03] 1. spf [15:03] 2. reply-to [15:04] 3. QA [15:04] i'd like to have reply-to first [15:04] if nobody objects [15:04] 4. bugs [15:04] anytthing else? [15:04] Kugelfang, sure [15:04] Kugelfang, start then [15:04] aight [15:04] Kugelfang, go for it [15:04] ok, Reply-TO: [15:05] some people want to switch -core ML to add a reply-to filed to the mail header [15:05] others just want to make all mailing lists show the same behaviour [15:05] i say: get a new mail client or use the procmail recipes that wolf posted to gentoo-dev ML [15:05] my position is that it's been posted for both procmail and maildrop the way for a person to configure it to either preference [15:05] exactly [15:05] I don't see any reason to change [15:06] this is why i want to immediately vote on this [15:06] anyone else? [15:06] I just committed a reply-to-list plugin for thunderbird-2 yesterday [15:06] and there you go [15:06] excellent [15:06] yet another way [15:06] it would be nice for all the lists to behave the same, but the behavior can be changed with procmail [15:06] for me it's fine as it is, if the mail clients aren't good enough, just improve them [15:06] vote: DonÄ't change reply-to for gentoo-core or any other mailing list [15:06] so it's really a non-issue [15:06] so we're not touching thunderbird itself but still fixing the client :) [15:06] * Kugelfang votes yes [15:06] * kingtaco|laptop yes [15:06] * kloeri votes yes [15:06] * robbat2 yes [15:06] * Flameeyes yes [15:06] * agaffney yes [15:07] umm clarify "dont change" [15:07] SpanKY: you'r elagging [15:07] SpanKY? [15:07] SpanKY, no change [15:07] SpanKY: don't change from what it's currently doing [15:07] "dont change existing behavior for any lists" [15:07] --> Falco (n=Falco@gentoo/developer/falco) has joined #gentoo-council [15:07] no header munging [15:07] yea [15:07] precisely [15:07] we're doing header munging now [15:07] for all non-core lists [15:07] not on -core [15:07] yes [15:07] correct... [15:08] i think this is a non-issue [15:08] so "dont change" could mean "dont set Reply-To on non-core lists" [15:08] no [15:08] if you're going with "dont change existing behavior" then whatever, that's fine [15:08] don't change the behaviour from the current one [15:08] on any list [15:08] SpanKY: "don't change" means "leave everything alone" [15:08] I'd suggest also to update the documentation on the dev handbook [15:08] ok [15:08] so that new devs can see the way to change -core behaviour through procmail [15:08] so we're not changing behavior [15:08] seems lame that everything acts the same but one list, but ive personally never had a problem and i dont use rules [15:08] i'm sorry that my vote request was not precise [15:08] kloeri, devrel handles that? [15:09] Flameeyes: sure [15:09] I would like one thing though, someone write up a doc explaining how to change it to your preference [15:09] kloeri, can you make it so? :) [15:09] ok, next try. [15:09] kingtaco|laptop, that's what I said :P [15:09] --> NeddySeagoon (n=NeddySea@gentoo/developer/NeddySeagoon) has joined #gentoo-council [15:09] I think I just volunteered.. [15:09] Flameeyes, ah, I missed that [15:09] ok, next issue [15:09] kloeri, perfect [15:09] spf then [15:09] Kugelfang, spf? [15:09] Don't change the current behaviour of reply-to munging for all gentoo mailing lists, including gentoo-core [15:10] did we agree on that? [15:10] Kugelfang: yes [15:10] Kugelfang, yes [15:10] I believe so [15:10] good [15:10] yes [15:10] SPF: [15:10] for the first, i'd like to voice kurt, if he's available [15:10] err, I didn't see a final vote from spanky [15:10] @SpanKY> if you're going with "dont change existing behavior" then whatever, that's fine [15:10] robbat2, "thats fine" [15:10] ok [15:10] robbat2, he said he's fine, although he's hardly needed to confirm his own vote at this point :P [15:11] hm, kurt's not here [15:11] Kugelfang, I've invited [15:11] lets see if he's here [15:11] wanna make it last? [15:11] hmm [15:11] fine by me [15:11] he's active [15:11] --> klieber (i=klieber@freenode/facilities-host/gentoo/klieber) has joined #gentoo-council [15:11] ok [15:11] do we need him to state anything else [15:11] --- kingtaco|laptop sets modes [#gentoo-council +v klieber] [15:11] he's already posted enough info [15:11] --- Kugelfang sets modes [#gentoo-council +v kingtaco|laptop] [15:11] ups [15:11] --> dostrow (n=dostrow@gentoo/developer/dostrow) has joined #gentoo-council [15:12] http://www.gentoo.org/proj/en/infrastructure/spf.xml [15:12] SpanKY: i got a question [15:12] --> welp (n=welp@gentoo/contributor/welp) has joined #gentoo-council [15:12] klieber: hi, thanks for joining [15:12] 'lo [15:12] klieber: i got one question regarding to our current setup [15:12] klieber: did you state how you got the mail sent from your gmail with your @gentoo.org in From: to give *negative* score in SA? [15:12] agaffney: because it was sent via a valid MX for that domain. [15:13] via the return-path [15:13] valid MX for the domain in the return path [15:13] klieber: why do we use the TXT record still, though there has been an SPF record added to DNS? [15:13] Kugelfang: the SPF record is a TXT record [15:13] klieber: not according to the RFC [15:13] that's what you put in DNS -- a TXT record (vs. A or MX) [15:13] klieber: it says for servers that don'T support it, you can use TXT [15:14] klieber: for other, you should use SPF [15:14] 1 sec [15:14] sure [15:14] I'm at work now [15:14] is that really relevant to the issue at hand ? [15:14] I don't think so [15:14] no [15:14] Kugelfang, I think the debate is to use ?all *all or not publish spf [15:15] ok guys... I'm out [15:15] *shrug*, i just wanted to be covers for any decission that could come up [15:15] <-- wolf31o2 has quit ("Leaving") [15:15] --> wolf31o2|work (n=wolf31o2@gentoo/developer/wolf31o2) has joined #gentoo-council [15:15] --- ChanServ sets modes [#gentoo-council +o wolf31o2|work] [15:15] http://www.openspf.org/dns.html <-- that says use txt. [15:15] so if there is an SPF record, it's news to me [15:15] Kugelfang, how does the dns type matter though? [15:15] klieber: in my current setup (at home and at work), I have my @g.o address set as an identity and send out through the local mail server. how would I set this up to get a negative score in SA? [15:15] kingtaco|laptop: well, i can discuss it with klieber later on [15:15] I bet most people's setups are closet to mine than your gmail example [15:16] *closer [15:16] guys, i have a meeting -- I have to go. sorry. [15:16] kingtaco|laptop: it was one of the points that critics bring up in regard to SPF [15:16] agaffney: don't forge return-path, you won't piss off SPF. thats the bottom line. [15:16] thx klieber [15:16] Kugelfang, I don't see how it applies though [15:16] * klieber vanishes [15:16] thanks klieber [15:16] agaffney, is the mail server authenticated or open? [15:16] brb, FYI i vote in favor of keeping SPF as is [15:16] it only relays to internal IPs [15:17] authenticated mail servers usually just rewrite the Return-Path with the actual user used [15:17] guys, can we agree that someone(infra?) will document how to use a 3rd party email server with spf? [15:17] [gmail for instance] [15:17] kingtaco|laptop: that would certainly be one solution [15:17] so we don't end up spending an hour figuring it out :) [15:17] kingtaco|laptop, that would be useful, yes [15:17] anyone oppose? [15:17] kingtaco|laptop, and also update the documentation about the use of the gentoo ssmtp server [15:17] with examples for all major MTAs (postfix, exim, qmail, etc.) [15:18] documentation on using third party and gentoo ssmtp server would solve it imo [15:18] kloeri, same for me [15:18] ok, vote: infra updates smtp docs and adds docs about howto use spf. spf stays the same, and if it's needed we're revisit [15:18] *we'll [15:18] s/we're/we'll/ i suppose? [15:18] kingtaco|laptop: wfm [15:18] --- kingtaco|laptop has changed the topic to: http://www.gentoo.org/proj/en/council | Last log : http://www.gentoeso.org/proj/en/council/meeting-logs/20060914.txt | meeting @ Nov 9th 2000UTC [15:19] yes for me too [15:19] * kingtaco|laptop yes [15:19] yes, but it needs to be in a timely fashion [15:19] klieber: see RFC4408, Section 3.1.1 [15:19] agaffney, a month [15:19] kingtaco|laptop: WFM [15:19] next council meeting [15:19] works for me [15:19] * Kugelfang votes yes [15:19] SpanKY? [15:19] proper docs by the next meeting or SPF goes? [15:19] or atleast it gets "revisited" :P [15:20] proper docs [15:20] agaffney, not really, it'll be reviewed [15:20] [15:16] brb, FYI i vote in favor of keeping SPF as is [15:20] heh [15:20] ok [15:20] ok [15:20] next topic then [15:20] robbat2, wanna update us on bugs? [15:21] kingtaco|laptop, go play with bugstest.g.o folks [15:21] it's up [15:21] robbat2, in "final" configuration? [15:21] i'm happy with the db stuff, but I think the web needs more tuning [15:21] yay [15:21] ok [15:21] any questions? [15:21] robbat2, do you have a timeframe? [15:21] what are some queries that would typically bring down the existing setup? [15:21] --- kingtaco|laptop sets modes [#gentoo-council +v spb] [15:21] robbat2: is jforman going to administrate it any further? [15:22] robbat2: just informational :-) [15:22] Kugelfang, I'd think so [15:22] agaffney: "all kernel" [15:22] agaffney, 'ALL kernel' and 'ALL gentoo' [15:22] all e [15:22] "ALL R" [15:22] Flameeyes, I don't have a timeframe [15:22] agaffney: queries returning insane amounts of results generally [15:22] querying ALL kernel [15:22] right now [15:22] * Flameeyes querying ALL R [15:22] Flameeyes, depends on how well the test goes [15:23] ALL kernel is 36k results [15:23] no bugs? we'll consider moving after a couple weeks of testing [15:23] kingtaco|laptop, supposed so, but a question had to be done [15:23] ALL R is some 146k results iirc [15:23] so who do i have to talk to in order to get bug regressions actually fixed [15:23] filing bugs in bugzilla doesnt work [15:23] so a parallel ALL R and All amarok had the second return bugs with a decent timing [15:23] i have no problem doing the work myself [15:23] ALL Kernel still hasn't finished :-P [15:23] SpanKY, email me if you have a regression on bugstest [15:24] I'm still waiting for a return on "ALL kernel" after 2-3 minutes [15:24] uhm [15:24] ah, mine just returend [15:24] the results for ALL amarok are mixed with bugs that has nothing to do with amarok [15:24] robbat2: i'm talking user experience, not db load [15:24] agaffney, it'll take ~5 minutes to start returning results [15:24] robbat2: things like default search values, css fixups, etc... [15:24] Flameeyes: sure amarok isn't in a comment? [15:24] kloeri, not sure, will check now [15:25] yeah it's in comments [15:25] ALL searches subject + comments [15:25] is this a new thing? [15:25] jforman has said he doesn't have much time at all, so I'm doing my best with all issues for bugstest at the moment [15:25] ok, firefox is gobbling up memory like a mofo [15:25] nope [15:25] kloeri, used to check just subject [15:25] so it must be trying to dispaly the results [15:25] agaffney: use konqueror :-P [15:25] agaffney: yeah, I pretty much killed my laptop yesterday with "ALL R" :) [15:25] agaffney, oh yeah, it's some GB of html :) [15:25] there we go [15:25] robbat2: i know jforman doesnt have time, but when i've asked to help, i havent gotten any response [15:25] 36k for ALL kernel [15:26] kloeri: the correct query is 'ALL dev-lang/R' [15:26] kloeri, bugs.gentoo.org shows only for subjet, not comments [15:26] [which is good [15:26] because it asctually gives _decent_ results [15:26] in comments we have useflags that will make such a search request pointless [15:26] Kugelfang: no, I wanted ALL R because we we're trying to push bugstest as much as possible [15:26] ok, so we're all good on bugs? [15:26] <-- dostrow has quit (Client Quit) [15:26] ok, so I should change the 'ALL' search to only search summaries [15:26] ALL R returning data now [15:26] kloeri: :-P [15:26] robbat2, would be appreciated, yes [15:26] robbat2: what's different about the bugstest setup? [15:27] agaffney, dual database backend, and I've gotten the searching stuff totally parallized between the two databases [15:27] one sec, i'll give you a cheesy diagram [15:28] hmm, cheese [15:28] can we move this to the open discussion? [15:28] Slave1 <--- (DB1 <--> DB2) --> Slave2 [15:28] sure [15:28] kk [15:28] did we forget about QA? [15:28] no [15:28] that's next [15:28] agaffney: that's comming now [15:28] i thought the last two items were pretty much open discussion [15:28]